The president of Fund of researches and support of the radical people of Crimea Nadir Bekirov about a current situation in Crimean Tatar national movement, the personnel rotation, the concerned Crimean Tatars, a position of Medzhlis in dialogue with the Ukrainian power and the international structures and about many other things is in exclusive interview to a portal of «Novoross.info».

— Nadir, after presidential election in Crimea are observed rather rough personnel rotation which have concerned, including the Crimean Tatars in autonomy power structures. On the one hand, the Crimean Tatars have lost a post of the minister of social policy of the autonomy, the first vice-premier, prospects of resignations of heads of the district state administrations — the Crimean Tatars are actively discussed. On the other hand — under the representative of Medzhlis in the Supreme body of Crimea, for example, have created the new commission on social development of village. In your opinion, these rotation are role fall of Medzhlis in public authorities of an autonomy or it remained at former level?

— If simply to tell «yes» or «no», both answers will be wrong. That is some time ago I believed that each position occupied in the power with representatives of the Crimean Tatars, and at that time I was a member of Medzhlis and considered that it represents interests of all people, it is a certain progress in relations with the power, in business of resolution of problems which we have. But since the certain moment I have ceased so to consider, because, in my opinion, Mwdzhlis was transformed, and, want, was deformed in body which, first, does not represent even the majority of the Crimean Tatars, without speaking about all people, and, secondly, it became body with the Ukrainian power as that. That is not with any mode, and simply appendage of the Ukrainian state. Therefore any purpose for this or that post from a name or at will of Medzhlis, it doesn’t mean much for the Crimean Tatars.

On this post decent enough person can work. Same Raet Settarov (the ex-minister of social policy of Crimea), Aziz Abdullaev (the vice-president of Ministerial council of Crimea, earlier the first vice-premier) — they are experts of the business, are not worse than people of other nationalities. But, occupying these posts and carrying out the office functions, they at all do not improve position of the Crimean Tatars as a whole. It is possible to type, of course, examples when to the concrete person, for example, money of a distance for operation, but after all it is a question of national interests.

Moreover, posts and portfolios became the basic subject of interest of Medzhlis and the basic form of a payoff of the Ukrainian power from the Crimean Tatars. That is instead of solving Crimean Tatar problems in essence, it is possible to agree with Mustafa Dzhemilev that he will receive «a half-portfolio, a portfolio or the handle from a portfolio», or his creature will receive, and for any period the theme is closed. Therefore that someone from Crimean Tatar officials have deprived of posts, by and large about what does not speak in a question of relations of the power with the Crimean Tatars. And so the Crimean Tatar problem, his permission, were braked some years ago, and this displacement changes nothing in an overall picture.

— And what is the key reason of this stupor?

— There is a medieval baize about why the king did not meet salute at an entrance to a city: have called the captain of guards and have asked, in what the reason. He speaks: «I have 12 reasons: first, there was no gunpowder…». That is that the Crimean Tatar problem was braked, did not dare, can be 12, and can, and 25 reasons. It is possible to sit down and try to analyse it. But the first reason — is not present desire. And then it is possible to find some more the reasons. Including it and absence creativity in the Ukrainian political establishment.

In one of the interviews the former president Kuchma when he was asked a question on how he sees the decision of Crimean Tatar problems in Ukraine, has answered: «In my opinion, Crimean Tatar problem is impossible to resolve». So he was the president for two terms, he met us, including Medzhlis, he has created Council of representatives, and I talked to him, told about problems. And, it appears, he sat at this time, listened to us and thought that it is impossible to resolve this problem. About what he, at last, in some years has told.

I believe so that any who deals with a Crimean Tatar problem in the Ukrainian tops, any representative of the power, approximately follows the same logic: it is impossible to resolve this problem. But banks, Emelja — your week: tell everything, everything, we will listen to observe you certain the political EC and when all will end all of us will equally solve this problem in own way. Because it is impossible to solve your problem and there is nothing to be engaged in it seriously.

— That is creation of institute of representation of the Crimean Tatars at the president did not become the problem decision?

— Generally it was the big break. Because we have achieved about what dreamt — to speak with the head of the state directly. That is, that to it not from SSU or any analysts brought the information prepared at their discretion, and to tell to it how we want. And we considered that it is very important to receive such channel. High hopes have been connected with it very much.

In total we had eight official meetings, last of which has taken place, if I am not mistaken, in 2003. However when by their results we received the document with commissions of the president, there was such impression that the meeting as that was not, or was, but not with us, or we were not heard. That is our offers were in itself, and commissions of the president are imaginations on a free theme.

Then these meetings in general have stopped also it too symptomatically: it has simply bothered the Ukrainian power. Any time to us tried to show, what is it interestingly, and have then told «yes well what for to lose time with you».

— The ultimatum of Mustafa Dzhemilev what if dialogue with Council of representatives of the Crimean Tatar people will not be renewed is how much real, the Crimean Tatars will combine the powers in state structures and the Ukrainian power will receive the most system in the country opposition led by Medzhlis?

— All should be divided it into some parts. First, I do not know that should occur, that Mustafa Dzhemilev has refused attempts to persuade Ukrainian power somehow it again to grow fond. As Mustafa Dzhemilev last years has proved to be unscrupulous and inconsistent. In words, in affairs, in what want. The impression is sometimes made that when it something speaks, his ears of it do not hear. Remember: «these hands stole nothing»? And here «these ears hear nothing» from this that he speaks. Therefore he has told and has told. The situation tomorrow will change and he will need to tell something another. He will tell so, and any more will not recollect that spoke earlier. And refutations will not be.

Secondly, influence of Mustafa Dzhemilev on officials Crimean Tatar origins far is not infinite. It never also was not full, and in present conditions the considerable part of Crimean Tatar officials will go a pragmatic way: «if I agree, if I leave, if I am offered sometihing, yes to spit I wanted that there speaks Mustafa Dzhemilev».

In general Mustafa Dzhemilev if it was consecutive, that could make the first, so it to write the application and to combine deputy powers, instead of to say that any regional official from area or any department should leave the post. And against that occurs to the Crimean Tatars last years, at it occasions to combine powers was though take away. For example, the Minister for Foreign Affairs from RUH when it has taken measures that the Crimean Tatars not to give the chance to come back from Uzbekistan. It was 2007, Ogryzko appointed on quota of RUH was the Minister for Foreign Affairs. Mustafa Dzhemilev not only has not combined power, he and RUH with what has not reproached because it was very important to get on the next elections to any list and to become the deputy. To whom does he stick now with the requirements, I wish to know? Therefore not all officials will listen to him.

And, at last, thirdly. Than it, actually, threatens the Ukrainian power? On meetings Medzhlis which he under any actions tried to collect last 3-4 years, I have not seen meeting which would total more than 500 persons. It that, gathers for the Ukrainian authorities meetings to press? Than it still can?

— And meetings on May, 18th? They traditionally most numerous in Crimea.

— For May, 18th people come not because Medzhlis has called, but because it is — special date, a part of our national identity. But it, besides, does not mean that if on meeting on May, 18th Mustafa Dzhemilev will call for something, all will turn as soldiers and will go to do for what he has called. And, among other things, he also will not call. Because it will be fraught for him personally and for that his small command for the sake of which it is all becomes. And to be substituted because of his whims the most part of people do not begin.

— How you estimate performance of the head of Medzhlis in EuroParliament? If it is fair, he has called inconsistent reactions. At first sight — rather serious resonance in the Ukrainian and Crimean mass-media. But if to look at that small audience for which it has been sounded, there was a sensation something declarative, ritual.

— Performance of Mustafa Dzhemilev in Bruxelles is no more than posing. If he made this speech about 10-15 years ago, I would burst into tears for pleasure even if performance would be conducted before three people.

But the matter is that Mustafa Dzhemilev, since 2000, carefully avoided any criticism of the Ukrainian policy concerning the Crimean Tatars, and especially abroad. Moreover, not simply avoided, and tried to bridle all who did it. In particular, a starting point of my disagreements with him which, eventually, have deduced me from Medzhlis, was that Mustafa Dzhemilev tried to prevent my criticism of the Ukrainian state for a policy concerning the Crimean Tatars. He had for this purpose no legal levers to stop it, was angry more and more, and as a result it has led to a complete separation. Mustafa Dzhemilev twice on Kurultaj tried to expel me, including using provokers-echoed, but left nothing — the majority silently, but firmly supported me. Further, the truth, I have left, when was convinced that there is nothing.

Pay attention that the statement of Mustafa Dzhemilev in Bruxelles is information is sated enough: the earths do not suffice, schools do not suffice. But it is all he told in any virtual context. As though the Crimean Tatars have landed on the Moon and there the earth does not suffice, water does not suffice, air does not suffice, schools do not suffice. As though it does not occur in the live world, in the live state.

What means, there is no earth? It, basically, even now suffices, and now this decision could be found, if it was wanted by the Ukrainian state. What means, there are no schools? Who does not build them, who does not allow them to open? Who excludes lessons of Crimean Tatar language and the literature from the program? They it is simple so have disappeared, and all? Yes is not present, it besides the Ukrainian state.

That is that it has made in Bruxelles, has been calculated not so much on those who as though listened to it, how much it is calculated on news agencies, first of all, who will tell here, in Crimea, the Crimean Tatars that, appears, Mustafa-aha told about their problems in Bruxelles. It is one of attempts, such of courses to seize leaving, as water through fingers, the control over public consciousness of the Crimean Tatars, their loyalty to Medzhlis to show: children, I for you there work.

Though the most important he there has not told. Because everything all or nearly so about what he there spoke, should consist in one conclusion: «the Ukrainian state spends furious, regular, rough, mass discrimination the Crimean Tatar people on the majority of positions which are provided by the international certificates about human rights. Therefore I ask EuroParliament to interfere with this process and to protect us from discrimination». You will not get it from Dzhemilev.

— Nadir, in structure of Medzhlis you, besides a number of other duties, answered and for interaction of this body with the international structures. How does this work now?

— I will tell that degree of activity of work with the international structures after my leaving, strangely enough, a year-one and a half later has raised. But all business in an orientation of this work. Till that time as I have left from Medzhlis, to me already long time, approximately since 2000, practically forbade to speak on international scene on behalf of this structure. And consequently I communicated on behalf of public organisation «Fund of researches and support of the radical people of Crimea», where I am the president. It also deduced Mustafa Dzhemilev what he can forbid me as to a member of Medzhlis or as to the official and as to the representative of public organisation — is not present. Certainly, it did not arrange neither him, nor his patrons from the Ukrainian state.

Now they became more active in that plan to show to our diaspora and most Crimean Tatar people that they not simply are idle. It really very much now actively there-here goes, very actively acts, mainly, before Turkish diaspora, and something such speaks. Clearly that people who decades, and even centuries, have been torn off from the native land which time in five-ten years happens in Crimea, having seen it and with its company, estimate its performances and their all this fuss noncritically enough.

But it is a question of the maintenance. That is now, as a matter of fact speaking, the international activity of Medzhlis is directed on building an information wall before the international organisations and our diaspora which would protect from adequate understanding of problems of the Crimean Tatars in Ukraine. They speak about the Crimean Tatars, but tell such things which try to hold diaspora on a distance from very, again, the simple thesis: the Crimean Tatars are exposed to regular and deliberate discrimination.

— That is the World congress of the Crimean Tatars also can be considered as one of elements of creation of the given information wall?

— The world congress of the Crimean Tatars in that format in which it has been realised is an attempt to put under the control of the Ukrainian state diaspora of the Crimean Tatars all over the world. Because it very much frightens that the diaspora will listen not to Mustafa Dzhemilev, and will have own opinion, to have the alternative information and will make actions which as the state will not suit Ukraine, and it is necessary, that arranged.

I was not at session of the given congress, but communicated with people who took part in its work much enough, and all my expectations have proved to be true. That is serious discussion about a situation was not. It was the big, grandiose, well fed, well entertained meeting.

Clearly that many have arrived for five-seven days home after two hundred years of residing, for example, in Romania, and here them took from the plane and to the plane have again spent. Concerts, leaders of the Crimean Tayar world, a medal… But even in these conditions in a number of sessions simply there was no time for performances, for position discussion, even the charter was discussed, but have already created supervising body which will supervise over this part of diaspora now. Then soon the president of congress Refat Chubarov has received the next Ukrainian cross. That is there were in advance prepared speeches that it is necessary to love the native land that it is necessary to keep together. And on it have dispersed, having burnt a heap of money and having done many noise.

But it is white noise. That representatives of diaspora have parted. Every year the congress you will not spend. Therefore for five years of memoirs should suffice. That participants of the congress in the societies and families told, how they communicated with Mustafa Dzhemilev. And this photo can be hung up in a framework on a wall while in five years again will not invite to Crimea chebureks to eat.

— And how business with alternative to the World congress of the Crimean Tatars — the International forum of the Crimean Tatars, the project oppositional to Medzhlis the organisations in that case is?

— While I can tell nothing. It after all still yet was not. A number of the Crimean Tatar organisations and a number of the organisations here, in Crimea, actually are anxious by position of the Crimean Tatars, and actually wish to work on the international scene, having the certain consolidated position. But as we are not supported by the Ukrainian state, we are not supported at all by any state, it is the public initiative there there is a weight of organizational and other questions. Though we have not refused this idea, and I hope that this forum will take place.

— And already in end of our conversation you could give the forecast how mutual relations of the Ukrainian power with Medzhlis at least in the immediate prospects can develop?

— I in general from those people who do not like to do forecasts as the life is so difficult and surprising that any most thick-headed forecasts can be scattered in a dust.

The only thing of what I am assured, so it that Mustafa Dzhemilev and Medzhlis will make advances to the death to the Ukrainian power whoever at the head of this power stood. And, despite the fact that, as though they this power — neither now, nor before. They will make advances until them frankly will not expose from imperious offices.

And as itself the Ukrainian power — here it interestingly will move. Judging by what not all apointees who have been presented in due time by Medzhlis, have deprived of the posts, for me it already the proof of the thesis announced some years ago, it is consecutive me. That system of Medzhlis, as though it was good on a plan right at the beginning, has now turned to an appendage of the Ukrainian state. That is Medzhlis became a necessary detail in the Ukrainian machinery of state, though and not generated by this device initially. In the beginning this body has grown as a thistle on a heathland, then it have processed, have dried, «have cultivated», have squared and have screwed in a machinery of government. And now he is necessary to any mode to try to keep control of the Crimean Tatars.

Therefore, despite contradictions and reproaches to each other, and Medzhlis, and the new power after presidential election have revealed aspiration to interaction. After all for the Ukrainian power a situation such: we wish to keep control of these? Whether so is better it to do through what and so for years in this gear turn, any instructions carry out, and now obviously show the readiness to run and sit down in that box and on that chain which to them will show. They, the truth, on us once yelped, but have now come running, wagging a tail. To carry on with them dialogue it is more convenient, rather than from a blank leaf to build relations and to form new channels of influence with someone unknown and unpredictable for the power.

Though not enough time has passed to do definitive conclusions. But all the same Yanukovych has a certain share of a healthy pragmatism. Therefore, I do not exclude that unlike the same Kuchma who has declared that a Crimean Tatar question basically not solved in Ukraine, Yanukovych from purely pragmatical requirements to make the manageable country, maybe, and will search for any new approaches. But, nevertheless, while probability of that it will plant Medzhlis on a chain on which all its predecessors before put, is highest.

— Well and there is any alternative to such state of affairs?

— Last year the national meeting on which representatives of some the organisations, and also simply freely defined citizens have come has taken place. In a number of documents which there have been accepted, Mustafa Dzhemilev and Refat Chubarov have been estimated as natsional-traitors. It has been supported by a considerable quantity of people, the truth, it was not something system. It was not the thought over representation, and the big meeting. But, at least, it is visible that variety of the organisations costs on these positions, already now there is a certain growth of these organisations. It and committee of this national meeting, and «Milli Firka» which now actively develops in Crimea. And I believe that this tendency will accrue. And last elections have shown that the majority of the Crimean Tatars do not support a position of Medzhlis. And I believe that Medzhlis have rendered clumsy assistance, having urged to vote for the certain candidate for the second tour of presidential election, having created it an anti-advertising the appeal and by that having pushed away from it Crimean Tatar voters.

Let’s look, we now are in the certain transit period, maybe, some the next months to all of us will show more boldly. But more precisely to tell, than now it was possible to me, hardly probably.

Talked Georgj Sergeev

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